Comments for Christian Doubt

Comment on Answer to Prayers? by Jason Sapp

Jason Sapp — Tue, 27 Jul 2010 02:17:57 +0000

Jeff,
Reading your post just made me laugh out loud. I can relate 100% and I love it!!!!! I find myself still on the believing side of the fence, but also living in some sort of weird/constant tension with my belief. Some days, I thrive on the tension and other days, I’m hating it…..
In regards to your strange “coincidences”, I’ve had many myself. They happened for quite some time after I became a believer. The “coincidences” continue to happen to this day, but very few and far between. If God just raised those darned blinds, I would believe for about 4.7 more years and then, I’d find myself involved in yet another darned web-based debate and go on doubting again.

Jason

Comment on Answer to Prayers? by Jeff

Jeff — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:44:43 +0000

I find myself in that type of position. Sometimes at night I look at the blinds and say “God, if you could just raise those blinds. Then I’ll know your real”. Then I wonder why he won’t do just this one small thing to help me believe. In my walk when I felt that I had faith, miraculous things have happened. But they were not miracles. They could have been God, or they could have been a crazy coincidence. It seems like in many people’s lives God becomes known to them through events where very improbable things happen. These could have happened by mere coincidence. But to the people they happen to they are enough evidence for belief. I am afraid that God will try to show himself to me and this way and it will not be enough. Although I take heart knowing that if God does choose to bring me back in this way, it will be enough. I still wish he would just raise the blinds though.

Comment on Doubting Christianity by Jason Sapp

Jason Sapp — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:12:37 +0000

Hey Elle,
Some of Craig’s videos on “recycle your faith” are very provocative indeed. This particular one (along with all the other’s in his “graveyard”) have been banned/censored by various Christian organizations, due to their “heretical” nature. Craig’s point in all of his videos (much like Mark here on his blog) is to start dialog (not debate). So, Craig creates sound bytes to stimulate dialog, not necessarily because he agrees with the person he is interviewing. With all of that said, I personally thought Bart’s interview about Jesus not coming to die was a little weird and I personally don’t echo Bart’s same sentiment regarding this issue. Although, I did like listening to Bart’s perspective. The thing that I’ve found most useful with Craig’s web site is the discussion is seems to generate among the viewers (even behind the scenes).

One more thing, before I sign off… What do you think Jesus thought his purpose was when he walked the earth? I know a few places where he says things like this: “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” or “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners” or “just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many” or “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.” In other words, I think Jesus had many purposes for being here (in his own mind) and I believe he thought that “having to die as a ransom” was one of those purposes.

Jason

Comment on Doubting Christianity by elle

elle — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 03:23:36 +0000

Jason, thanks for referencing recycleyourfaith, i really enjoyed the videos i’ve watched so far. One of them opened up a can of worms for me though, and I was hoping to start a discussion on it, as I can’t get it out of my mind…
I watched the video “What’s the point of Jesus?”(which you can watch here http://www.recycleyourfaith.com/2010/03/29/whats-the-point-of-jesus/ ), which discusses the idea of substitution/satisfaction atonement… the man in the video, Bart Campolo, talks about how the concept that God needed to kill somebody to forgive our sins doesn’t make much sense. In a way I agree, but think there may be other ideas that can align with christianty to explain why Jesus came and died.. still working this out.. what are your thoughts?

Comment on Answer to Prayers? by Mark Lefers

Mark Lefers — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 01:35:52 +0000

Jeff,
Belief is an odd thing. In my work, I believe in things that I have sufficient evidence to believe in. However, if I don’t think there is enough evidence, or if the evidence goes against a hypothesis/idea it is very hard, if not impossible, for me to “just believe”. That is where I find myself with Christianity. I don’t think there is evidence that points to something that is outside of natural explanations, so I can’t just believe that there is a supernatural God that sent His Son to die for my sins. Yeah, maybe my belief/unbelief is out of my control and determined by my naturalistic worldview. However, I would hope that if I was presented with evidence of the supernatural that I would change my worldview to allow for the supernatural/God.
I can’t remember if I choose to believe in the beginning. I was raised in a Christian home, so I can’t remember when the training lead to a personal belief. But I do recall believing and choosing to worship God.

Comment on Answer to Prayers? by Jeff

Jeff — Sun, 25 Jul 2010 19:08:51 +0000

You said “if I make a decision”. Does that mean you have the choice to believe or not believe in Christianity? Or is your belief/unbelief out of your control and determined by the way you see the world? Did you choose to believe in the beginning or did you just believe?

Comment on Doubting Christianity by Jason Sapp

Jason Sapp — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:24:32 +0000

Mark,
I just want to commend you again for generating a blog that seems to let people question their faith in what seems to be a “safe” atmosphere. I like the fact that I don’t see a ton of bashing from either side. I’ve just grown so weary of “the great debate”. It seems that we gain so much more insight and wisdom when we can walk along side of others (no matter what their beliefs or persuasions may be).
You are probably already very aware of this web site, but (as a Christian), I’ve really come to love some of his more provocative videos (www.recycleyourfaith.com) (check out the ones in his “graveyard”). I like the fact that many of his videos (and the people in them) tend to leave us in a place of tension, rather than satisfaction and complacency. For whatever reason, this feels more appropriate than the black-and-white answers that I’ve so often heard bantered about (more so from the evangelical camp).
Anyway, I just want to encourage you in your search over this next year (or so) into the resurrection. I love your questions, but I especially love your humility. IMHO, I don’t think one can ever over-emphasize the importance of humility in one’s search for truth.

Jason

Comment on My Background by Drew Smith

Drew Smith — Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:16:40 +0000

Hey Mark,

I haven’t forgotten about our conversation. You said some interesting things that have caused me to reflect on the nature of our conversation (which is a good thing). We might be talking past one another, so in my next post I hope to clarify and try to define some important words which may help both of us begin to think a little more clearly. I know that it is easy to assume the other person should understand where you are coming from, but that is typically not the case. I hope to remedy that. I hope to continue to try and genuinely understand where you are coming from. Recently, I found the following quote that has really influenced my thought process about the importance of sufficiently defining words. I always find good quotes helpful for my thinking.

William Trufant Foster on Debate and Definition said…
Argumentation and Debating (Houghton Mifflin Co.: 1908), pp. 145-6.

“We have seen that the first step in argument is the interpretation of the proposition in order to resolve it into its essential parts; and we have seen that a first step in any such interpretation must be the definition of terms. Many fallacies are due to inadequate definition of terms, for the most dangerous source of verbal confusion and consequent dispute is our failure to set forth our meaning with perfect clearness, and the more subtle the misinterpretation, the greater the danger. The study and practice of argumentation is sure to reveal innumerable chances for confusion due to the lack of satisfactory definitions. We can seldom proceed far in any argument, no matter how simple it may seem to be, without feeling the necessity for this preliminary work of exposition. Without the protection of painstaking definitions, no point in an argument is proof against the insidious fallacies of ambiguity. When the two sides in a controversy use the same terms with different meanings or different terms with the same meaning; when colleagues are not agreed and consistent in the use of terms; when any man employs a term in one sense and later shifts to another sense, the result is a confusion which may carry in its train whole troops of fallacies. Clear and convincing definitions are fundamental requisites of sound argument.”

Comment on Doubting Christianity by Mark Lefers

Mark Lefers — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:19:22 +0000

Thanks Elle for the prayers. I just wish they worked because spiritually, I haven’t done well for 3 1/2 years and concider myself an unbeliever. But thanks for the good thoughts anyway

Comment on Doubting Christianity by elle

elle — Mon, 19 Jul 2010 02:56:37 +0000

thanks for the support guys . Mark- i definitely don’t think it’s ggod to take national geo at face value, the specials i saw were put together by people who may have had thier own agenda and theorize accordingly, it just kind of opened up some of my own questions, but i think i came out of it a bit stronger, maybe. and i’m doing okay.. still have some trouble but am just taking it slow and trying to trust God. i hope you all are doing well too, you will be in my prayers.