Comments on: Why I didn’t have an Easter post http://christiandoubt.com/2009/04/13/why-i-didn%e2%80%99t-have-an-easter-post/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=why-i-didn%25e2%2580%2599t-have-an-easter-post thoughts from someone dealing with doubt Sat, 14 Aug 2010 03:30:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Like a child http://christiandoubt.com/2009/04/13/why-i-didn%e2%80%99t-have-an-easter-post/comment-page-1/#comment-479 Like a child Sat, 26 Jun 2010 02:55:58 +0000 http://christiandoubt.com/?p=267#comment-479 That was me last easter...we had family members in town who had the norovirus along with my son....so just my husband and I attended sunday school alone. And I agree with you, it was nice to have a break from church. That was me last easter…we had family members in town who had the norovirus along with my son….so just my husband and I attended sunday school alone. And I agree with you, it was nice to have a break from church.

]]> By: Kyle2 http://christiandoubt.com/2009/04/13/why-i-didn%e2%80%99t-have-an-easter-post/comment-page-1/#comment-262 Kyle2 Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:36:03 +0000 http://christiandoubt.com/?p=267#comment-262 The doctrine of Hell has been the biggest source of congnitive dissonance and discomfort for me. People talk of the need for theodicy, a defense of God in light of the problem of evil, and I saw hell, as depicted in popular Christianity, as the greatest challenge for theodicy. Over the past few years I have reformulated my (still evolving) view of Hell. Based on what? (I'm asking myself this question, because I haven't really thought about it) I guess based on reason - a commitment to non-contradiction, the Bible - but not so much on the typical "hell" passages but in seeing Jesus as the self-revelation of the true character of God, and theological voices in the tradition that have been drowned out by the dominant Augustinian tradition. Fire and brimstone and torture is definitely out. I don't think I ever bought into that. And along the lines of what Mark said, I believe that no one will be cast away from God based on ignorance. Each person must see and experience the true God and his offer of transforming grace. And if a person still rejects God, I envision the possibility that God continues to reach out to them, never forcing them to accept him, but leaving the door open. Rescue for the Dead: The Posthumous Salvation of Non-Christians in Early Christianity by Jeffrey A. Trumbower looks to be an interesting read along these lines. I have only skimmed it. Trumbower uncovers a strand of teaching that stands as an alternate to the One Life, One Chance teaching that solidified into a core doctrine through Augustine. Tim, yes Calvin may have viewed the flames to be metaphorical, but his framework of predestination is problematic to non-Calvinists and to doubters. Eternal destiny based on the arbitrary decision of God simply does not cut it. The doctrine of Hell has been the biggest source of congnitive dissonance and discomfort for me. People talk of the need for theodicy, a defense of God in light of the problem of evil, and I saw hell, as depicted in popular Christianity, as the greatest challenge for theodicy. Over the past few years I have reformulated my (still evolving) view of Hell. Based on what? (I’m asking myself this question, because I haven’t really thought about it) I guess based on reason – a commitment to non-contradiction, the Bible – but not so much on the typical “hell” passages but in seeing Jesus as the self-revelation of the true character of God, and theological voices in the tradition that have been drowned out by the dominant Augustinian tradition.

Fire and brimstone and torture is definitely out. I don’t think I ever bought into that. And along the lines of what Mark said, I believe that no one will be cast away from God based on ignorance. Each person must see and experience the true God and his offer of transforming grace. And if a person still rejects God, I envision the possibility that God continues to reach out to them, never forcing them to accept him, but leaving the door open.

Rescue for the Dead: The Posthumous Salvation of Non-Christians in Early Christianity by Jeffrey A. Trumbower looks to be an interesting read along these lines. I have only skimmed it. Trumbower uncovers a strand of teaching that stands as an alternate to the One Life, One Chance teaching that solidified into a core doctrine through Augustine.

Tim, yes Calvin may have viewed the flames to be metaphorical, but his framework of predestination is problematic to non-Calvinists and to doubters. Eternal destiny based on the arbitrary decision of God simply does not cut it.

]]> By: Tim http://christiandoubt.com/2009/04/13/why-i-didn%e2%80%99t-have-an-easter-post/comment-page-1/#comment-245 Tim Thu, 16 Apr 2009 03:07:00 +0000 http://christiandoubt.com/?p=267#comment-245 Mark, I know exactly what you mean about Wright -- it's a bruiser of a book! On hell; here, curiously, you have the support of Calvin, who also takes the flames to be metaphorical. Mark,

I know exactly what you mean about Wright — it’s a bruiser of a book!

On hell; here, curiously, you have the support of Calvin, who also takes the flames to be metaphorical.

]]> By: Mark Lefers http://christiandoubt.com/2009/04/13/why-i-didn%e2%80%99t-have-an-easter-post/comment-page-1/#comment-244 Mark Lefers Thu, 16 Apr 2009 02:41:23 +0000 http://christiandoubt.com/?p=267#comment-244 Tim, I'm on the last couple chapters of N.T.Wright's book on the Resurrection. Unfortunately after drudging through some 600 pages, I'm finally getting to some parts that are helpful to me. I was so scared that I would miss something, that I tried to read and understand all 600 pages so far. Looking back I should have just skimmed the majority of the book. Oh well, now I'm a little more educated on pagan and early Jewish beliefs of the after life. Tim,
I’m on the last couple chapters of N.T.Wright’s book on the Resurrection. Unfortunately after drudging through some 600 pages, I’m finally getting to some parts that are helpful to me. I was so scared that I would miss something, that I tried to read and understand all 600 pages so far. Looking back I should have just skimmed the majority of the book. Oh well, now I’m a little more educated on pagan and early Jewish beliefs of the after life.

]]> By: Mark Lefers http://christiandoubt.com/2009/04/13/why-i-didn%e2%80%99t-have-an-easter-post/comment-page-1/#comment-243 Mark Lefers Thu, 16 Apr 2009 02:34:57 +0000 http://christiandoubt.com/?p=267#comment-243 Mike, I do love to sing. It moves my soul. Or as the skeptic part of me says, "The evolutionary underpinnings of music run deep in our species." I tell you, some days I feel like both sides of my brain just love duking it out. :) Mike,
I do love to sing. It moves my soul. Or as the skeptic part of me says, “The evolutionary underpinnings of music run deep in our species.” I tell you, some days I feel like both sides of my brain just love duking it out. :)

]]> By: Mark Lefers http://christiandoubt.com/2009/04/13/why-i-didn%e2%80%99t-have-an-easter-post/comment-page-1/#comment-242 Mark Lefers Thu, 16 Apr 2009 02:29:55 +0000 http://christiandoubt.com/?p=267#comment-242 Jim, Yeah the difficulties of hell are big. It is definitely on my shelf of things to think more (and read) on in the future. There are a lot of different views out there, and I'm sure none of us has it exactly right. I'm pretty sure the fire and brimstone image isn't literal, and I hold more to an eternal moving away from God view. I also think we have no clue about death. One idea I have is that upon death, we'll actually get all the evidence, we'll see what God was doing in our lives, see how what He did was for our good, see that there is a God who died for us, etc. etc. And then we will be given an actual choice with all the data at hand. I guess we will all see what will happen. Jim,
Yeah the difficulties of hell are big. It is definitely on my shelf of things to think more (and read) on in the future. There are a lot of different views out there, and I’m sure none of us has it exactly right. I’m pretty sure the fire and brimstone image isn’t literal, and I hold more to an eternal moving away from God view. I also think we have no clue about death. One idea I have is that upon death, we’ll actually get all the evidence, we’ll see what God was doing in our lives, see how what He did was for our good, see that there is a God who died for us, etc. etc. And then we will be given an actual choice with all the data at hand. I guess we will all see what will happen.

]]> By: Tim http://christiandoubt.com/2009/04/13/why-i-didn%e2%80%99t-have-an-easter-post/comment-page-1/#comment-241 Tim Wed, 15 Apr 2009 02:32:57 +0000 http://christiandoubt.com/?p=267#comment-241 Mark, Which book are you working on? Mark,

Which book are you working on?

]]> By: Mike aka MonolithTMA http://christiandoubt.com/2009/04/13/why-i-didn%e2%80%99t-have-an-easter-post/comment-page-1/#comment-239 Mike aka MonolithTMA Tue, 14 Apr 2009 12:11:44 +0000 http://christiandoubt.com/?p=267#comment-239 I've gone through two Easter's as an atheist now, the first was barely a month past realizing I was an atheist. I still found myself each time belting out Keith Green's version of The Easter Song. It's just fun to sing. I’ve gone through two Easter’s as an atheist now, the first was barely a month past realizing I was an atheist. I still found myself each time belting out Keith Green’s version of The Easter Song. It’s just fun to sing.

]]> By: Jim T. http://christiandoubt.com/2009/04/13/why-i-didn%e2%80%99t-have-an-easter-post/comment-page-1/#comment-238 Jim T. Tue, 14 Apr 2009 06:51:52 +0000 http://christiandoubt.com/?p=267#comment-238 Hi Mark, I know what you mean. Christian holidays and church can be an awfully depressing place sometimes. Lately, as I listen to people sing around me at church, I wonder, what on Earth are these people singing about? For instance, on Easter morning, there was a song with these lyrics: "Jesus Your love has no bounds." Now maybe that's true, but I'm willing to bet that the people supposedly suffering eternal torment in hell for not making the correct educated guess about Jesus might have a different view on a love that "has no bounds." Hope you get over your cold soon. - Jim Hi Mark,

I know what you mean. Christian holidays and church can be an awfully depressing place sometimes.

Lately, as I listen to people sing around me at church, I wonder, what on Earth are these people singing about? For instance, on Easter morning, there was a song with these lyrics: “Jesus Your love has no bounds.” Now maybe that’s true, but I’m willing to bet that the people supposedly suffering eternal torment in hell for not making the correct educated guess about Jesus might have a different view on a love that “has no bounds.”

Hope you get over your cold soon.

- Jim

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