Comments on: Prayer of the Week http://christiandoubt.com/2009/03/22/prayer-of-the-week-6/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=prayer-of-the-week-6 thoughts from someone dealing with doubt Sat, 14 Aug 2010 03:30:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Mark Lefers http://christiandoubt.com/2009/03/22/prayer-of-the-week-6/comment-page-1/#comment-186 Mark Lefers Fri, 27 Mar 2009 02:55:14 +0000 http://christiandoubt.com/?p=226#comment-186 Kyle2, Questions are always welcomed. Hope you find this site somewhat helpful. Kyle2,
Questions are always welcomed. Hope you find this site somewhat helpful.

]]> By: Kyle2 http://christiandoubt.com/2009/03/22/prayer-of-the-week-6/comment-page-1/#comment-183 Kyle2 Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:13:19 +0000 http://christiandoubt.com/?p=226#comment-183 Mark, Thanks for the online book referral. I look forward to reading it. Right now I feel pretty secure that I currently am and will remain a follower of Christ; at present I can believe the core truths. What is evolving and being shaped - often by frustration and doubt - are my particular beliefs and my view of how we are to live out a Christian life. A month from now this may change and I may be skeptical about the truth of the gospel, but that is not where I am right now. As far as my participation I was intrigued by a group of people who for the most part would have some understanding of where each was coming from; that is, having some experience of doubt - whether occasional, severe, or to the point of de-conversion. This differs from the typical church gathering in which, as noted, Christians may mean well and be supportive, but not really understand experientially or in relation to the doubter's mode of thinking. (And although many may be supportive I am pretty sure they don't want the doubter to bring up questions week after week, say, in their Bible study: "but aren't you troubled by this?..."). I say all that to say that I would really like to spend some time among this community, contributing whatever I can when I have the time: personal experience, theological questions, reflections on "reality"... I will post more on my background when I have some time. Mark,
Thanks for the online book referral. I look forward to reading it. Right now I feel pretty secure that I currently am and will remain a follower of Christ; at present I can believe the core truths. What is evolving and being shaped – often by frustration and doubt – are my particular beliefs and my view of how we are to live out a Christian life. A month from now this may change and I may be skeptical about the truth of the gospel, but that is not where I am right now.

As far as my participation I was intrigued by a group of people who for the most part would have some understanding of where each was coming from; that is, having some experience of doubt – whether occasional, severe, or to the point of de-conversion. This differs from the typical church gathering in which, as noted, Christians may mean well and be supportive, but not really understand experientially or in relation to the doubter’s mode of thinking. (And although many may be supportive I am pretty sure they don’t want the doubter to bring up questions week after week, say, in their Bible study: “but aren’t you troubled by this?…”). I say all that to say that I would really like to spend some time among this community, contributing whatever I can when I have the time: personal experience, theological questions, reflections on “reality”…

I will post more on my background when I have some time.

]]> By: Mark Lefers http://christiandoubt.com/2009/03/22/prayer-of-the-week-6/comment-page-1/#comment-170 Mark Lefers Tue, 24 Mar 2009 03:28:27 +0000 http://christiandoubt.com/?p=226#comment-170 Nichole, Thanks for commenting. I see the Romans reference referring to the struggle between trying to do good and the temptation of sin. I'm not sure if my doubt is sin, or is the result of sin. Maybe this could be discussed more. My doubt isn't a willful unbelief (sin), but the inability to believe (maybe the result of some original sin). For instance, can a Christian force themselves to believe in Buddhism? Or do they have the inability to believe Buddhism because they know (or believe) it isn't true. The same with me, I can't believe because I don't know if it is true. Oh, by the way, I like yours and Natalie's website, nicely done, and thanks for visiting. Nichole,
Thanks for commenting. I see the Romans reference referring to the struggle between trying to do good and the temptation of sin. I’m not sure if my doubt is sin, or is the result of sin. Maybe this could be discussed more. My doubt isn’t a willful unbelief (sin), but the inability to believe (maybe the result of some original sin). For instance, can a Christian force themselves to believe in Buddhism? Or do they have the inability to believe Buddhism because they know (or believe) it isn’t true. The same with me, I can’t believe because I don’t know if it is true.
Oh, by the way, I like yours and Natalie’s website, nicely done, and thanks for visiting.

]]> By: Mark Lefers http://christiandoubt.com/2009/03/22/prayer-of-the-week-6/comment-page-1/#comment-169 Mark Lefers Tue, 24 Mar 2009 03:12:19 +0000 http://christiandoubt.com/?p=226#comment-169 Kyle, Welcome. I agree with what you said, "thoughts of doubters and skeptics are not often welcome in evangelical circles". However, from my experience (for what that's worth) is that it more that many don't know what to do with doubt, so it sometimes may feel like you have the plague. But I've also have many people who genuinely care for me, and try to help. My doubts like yours tended to be very cyclical. For me it tended to be triggered by discussions about evolution. Unfortunately I haven't cycled out of my doubt in over 2 years. I'd recommend trying to classify your doubt (see <a href="http://christiandoubt.com/2008/12/09/the-thomas-factor" rel="nofollow">this book</a>), then you can best try to address it. You mentioned wanting to participate, what does that look like? I keep meaning to post more theological questions I struggle with, but have been short with time to fully develop my thoughts. Writing down what I feel is a bit easier. But trust me there are a lot of thoughts going on in this head of mine :) Kyle,
Welcome. I agree with what you said, “thoughts of doubters and skeptics are not often welcome in evangelical circles”. However, from my experience (for what that’s worth) is that it more that many don’t know what to do with doubt, so it sometimes may feel like you have the plague. But I’ve also have many people who genuinely care for me, and try to help. My doubts like yours tended to be very cyclical. For me it tended to be triggered by discussions about evolution. Unfortunately I haven’t cycled out of my doubt in over 2 years. I’d recommend trying to classify your doubt (see this book), then you can best try to address it.
You mentioned wanting to participate, what does that look like? I keep meaning to post more theological questions I struggle with, but have been short with time to fully develop my thoughts. Writing down what I feel is a bit easier. But trust me there are a lot of thoughts going on in this head of mine :)

]]> By: Nichole http://christiandoubt.com/2009/03/22/prayer-of-the-week-6/comment-page-1/#comment-166 Nichole Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:46:03 +0000 http://christiandoubt.com/?p=226#comment-166 What I hear you saying reminds me of this lament of Paul's in the book of Romans: "So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!" (Romans 7:21-25) What I hear you saying reminds me of this lament of Paul’s in the book of Romans: “So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!” (Romans 7:21-25)

]]> By: Kyle2 http://christiandoubt.com/2009/03/22/prayer-of-the-week-6/comment-page-1/#comment-165 Kyle2 Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:58:37 +0000 http://christiandoubt.com/?p=226#comment-165 Mark, I discovered your blog last Friday and was moved by your journey. Your prayers of the week are especially poignant. It is clear that you truly want to believe. Some will see that as a weakness or as a biased approach to searching for truth; I find it both noble and sorrowful. Much of what is most important to you is tied up in the church. It is reasonable to want to hold on to this. The only drawback would be if you close your eyes and your mind to dissenting voices and hold on to what you know to be false. Clearly you are not doing this; I would say you are not capable of doing this, and I take that to be a good thing – but painful, I know. I came across your blog through a Google search for “Christian doubt.” (You were the #2 result). I’m not sure if I was searching to find answers or to find company. As you know, the thoughts of doubters and skeptics are not often welcome in evangelical circles. My doubt tends to be cyclical, and is sometimes very severe. The severe periods definitely have a large impact on all aspects of my life. I reflected on the depth of my underlying doubt as I went through the weekend. I moved toward classifying myself officially as a “doubter” in my own mind, and it felt slightly liberating. I think this is in contrast to the absolute certainty that is expected and professed in church worship services and typical church-speak. But I also know that when doubt is severe it is not liberating; it is difficult and distressing. I was in such a state of doubt just a month or two ago. I am glad I found your blog and would like to participate in the journey. I have theological questions that need to be wrestled with, and I know that most participants at this site value such questioning. But it was the vulnerable humanity and discussions of family relationships, rather than the academic questions, which I found especially powerful on this site. How do doubts affect our marriages and how we father our children? So thank you (and to Pither) for sharing. Mark,
I discovered your blog last Friday and was moved by your journey. Your prayers of the week are especially poignant. It is clear that you truly want to believe. Some will see that as a weakness or as a biased approach to searching for truth; I find it both noble and sorrowful. Much of what is most important to you is tied up in the church. It is reasonable to want to hold on to this. The only drawback would be if you close your eyes and your mind to dissenting voices and hold on to what you know to be false. Clearly you are not doing this; I would say you are not capable of doing this, and I take that to be a good thing – but painful, I know.

I came across your blog through a Google search for “Christian doubt.” (You were the #2 result). I’m not sure if I was searching to find answers or to find company. As you know, the thoughts of doubters and skeptics are not often welcome in evangelical circles. My doubt tends to be cyclical, and is sometimes very severe. The severe periods definitely have a large impact on all aspects of my life. I reflected on the depth of my underlying doubt as I went through the weekend. I moved toward classifying myself officially as a “doubter” in my own mind, and it felt slightly liberating. I think this is in contrast to the absolute certainty that is expected and professed in church worship services and typical church-speak. But I also know that when doubt is severe it is not liberating; it is difficult and distressing. I was in such a state of doubt just a month or two ago.

I am glad I found your blog and would like to participate in the journey. I have theological questions that need to be wrestled with, and I know that most participants at this site value such questioning. But it was the vulnerable humanity and discussions of family relationships, rather than the academic questions, which I found especially powerful on this site. How do doubts affect our marriages and how we father our children? So thank you (and to Pither) for sharing.

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